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AgedLace

Gospel of John - Chapter 1

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2 hours ago, Jostler said:

Just the first 4 verses have enough meat in them  to occupy hours of comment. 

Jesus preceded ALL of  creation.

Jesus is God

Jesus is the Word

Jesus is the Creator

Everything that has life was given life by Him

 

It brings to mind the question of aliens.  If God created us in His image, the very image He knew He would take on Himself, it's pretty  obvious we're pretty special.  Of all the majestic things He created including angels, none is witnessed to bear His image but  mankind.

It was decided somewhere in the counsels of the Trinity, before time began, that a MAN would occupy the Throne over ALL creation. 

Jesus is a man.  That choice was not accidental... He  knew He was going  to take on human form before the first Word of Creation  was spoken.  He  CHOSE that form as the form He wished to rule the universe(s) from.

To believe He created an intelligence superior to the form He intended to take doesn't make logical sense.  No Christian  who has scratched the surface of Biblical revelation should have  to even question whether  intelligent beings with an  origin in this dimension are a threat to us.  They don't exist.

Extra-dimensional "aliens"?   That's a horse of a different color.   And one we've always known from Scripture as Lucifer, fallen angels and demons.  I'm willing to bet they'll present themselves at some point as aliens :)  But its a deception no student of Scripture need fall for.

There are many other passages that  explicitly rule out  the possibility  just as clearly and unambiguously.

Thank you for starting us off, @Jostler!  Your first several points are the perfect 'intro' for several of the questions God had me record about a week ago.  I'll post those questions next. 

We'll see where God goes from there.

 

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Posted (edited)

Discussion Questions

Who is the Word?

When did the Word come into existence?

What does this passage mean when it says "in the beginning"?

Is the Word God?

Who is the Creator?

What did He create?

What has the Word given to everyone?

Who was called to be a Witness to this Word / Light?

Why was this Witness called to testify about the Word / Light?

When the passage refers to a "True Light", does this also imply there is a "false light"?

If so, what do you think that "false light" might be?

Do you think the passage "He came into the very world He created" should be taken literally?

What do you think is the reason the world was unable to recognize Him?

Who is the passage referencing when it says "His own"?

Why do you suppose His own rejected Him?

What do you think it means to "receive Him"?

Who are granted the power to become the sons of God?

How does this happen?

What does becoming a son of God mean?

What does the passage mean by the word "reborn"? (often times referred to as "being born again")?

What does the passage mean by the phrase "became human and made His home among us"?

What do you think it means when John says they saw the Son's "glory"?

What do you think the passage means when it says "From his abundance we have all received one gracious blessing after another"?

What do you think is the point of the passage when it contrasts the Law of Moses with God's unfailing Love and Faithfulness?

Who does the passage "the unique One, who is Himself God" refer to?

Why did the temple priests ask John the Baptist if he was Elijah?

What would be the significance of this question?

What did John the Baptist mean when he said "‘A man is coming after me who is far greater than I am, for he existed long before me.’"?

Why did John the Baptist baptize with water?

What did Andrew understand John to mean when he called Jesus "The Lamb of God"?

Why did Nathanael refer to Jesus as "the Son of God—the King of Israel"?

Why do you think Jesus referred to Himself as the Son of Man?

Is there anything else the Holy Spirit has brought to your attention as a result of reading this passage?

Is there a verse that sticks out to you?

What does that verse mean to you?

Is there a promise in this passage which you can claim?

 

Edited by AgedLace

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2 hours ago, AgedLace said:

1. What does this passage mean when it says "in the beginning"?

2. Is the Word God?

3. Who is the Creator?

1.  A reference to Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the Earth"

בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ׃

ברא is repeated as part of 'in the beginning' and 'created'.

3.  The Hebrew for Creator is: בורא.  It contains ברא.

Genesis 1:27

ויברא אלהים ׀ את־האדם בצלמו בצלם אלהים ברא אתו זכר ונקבה ברא אתם׃

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The 'Word' becomes Flesh.

 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Lamb93 said:

1.  A reference to Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the Earth"

בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ׃

ברא is repeated as part of 'in the beginning' and 'created'.

3.  The Hebrew for Creator is: בורא.  It contains ברא.

Genesis 1:27

ויברא אלהים ׀ את־האדם בצלמו בצלם אלהים ברא אתו זכר ונקבה ברא אתם׃

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The 'Word' becomes Flesh.

 

May I ask which translation(s) are you using, please?  Thank you.

Edited by AgedLace

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, AgedLace said:

May I ask which translation(s) are you using, please?  Thank you.

KJV.  If the Elohim confused you, apologies.  That is the Hebrew name for 'God' in Genesis.  The Hebrew is as is without the vowels as the original Torah was written

Edited by Lamb93

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Just now, Lamb93 said:

KJV.  If the Elohim confused you, apologies.  That is the Hebrew name for 'God' in Genesis.

What you put in quotes, allegedly purporting to be the KJV, really is not the exact quote from the KJV.   

Quote

[Gen 1:1 KJV]
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

The KJV is an English translation, not a transliteration or mixture of Hebrew / Greek / English.  Please refrain from changing the actual content of the version you are trying to quote from.  While some here may have known or understood what you meant by using the Greek word "elohim", there are also others here who do not.  I want to ensure there are no misunderstandings or chaos later on in our study. 

I would also request that people put the source(s) they are referencing in their posts.  For example, which Greek sources were you using above? 

I do not have a problem with referencing the actual Hebrew or Greek words in an explanation of the actual text being examined.  My issue is keeping the integrity of quoted material as originally written:  in this particular case, the KJV being written in English.

That said, you have pointed out another word to be added to the Word Study series.  I am working on it.

The Hebrew word "elohim" has several meanings in the KJV ...

Quote

The KJV translates Strong's H430 in the following manner: God (2,346x), god (244x), judge (5x), GOD (1x), goddess (2x), great (2x), mighty (2x), angels (1x), exceeding (1x), God-ward (with H4136) (1x), godly (1x).

as referenced by this source ... https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H430&t=KJV

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, AgedLace said:

The KJV is an English translation, not a transliteration or mixture of Hebrew / Greek / English.  Please refrain from changing the actual content of the version you are trying to quote from.  While some here may have known or understood what you meant by using the Greek word "elohim", there are also others here who do not.

Elohim is Hebrew, not Greek.  

My sincerest apologies.  I quoted Genesis 1:1 from memory.  We're not permitted to post in non-English languages without a translation.  I was trying to save time.

The crux of my post is that the Hebrew of Genesis 1 is relevant to John 1.  Do you disagree?

Edited by Lamb93

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, AgedLace said:

May I ask which translation(s) are you using, please?  Thank you.

 

2 hours ago, AgedLace said:
2 hours ago, Lamb93 said:

1.  A reference to Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the Earth"

בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ׃

ברא is repeated as part of 'in the beginning' and 'created'.

3.  The Hebrew for Creator is: בורא.  It contains ברא.

Genesis 1:27

ויברא אלהים ׀ את־האדם בצלמו בצלם אלהים ברא אתו זכר ונקבה ברא אתם׃

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

The 'Word' becomes Flesh.

Just came across this which is interesting.  ברא in Aramaic means 'son, child' suggesting a good fit with John 1.

Wiktionary - B-r-a

In Biblical Hebrew, according to the above link,  it can also mean 'to cut off' which brings Daniel 9:26 (KJV) to mind:

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

'Messiah', 'son', 'in the beginning', 'created', 'cut off' all connect to ברא which is pronounced:

Pronunciation of B-r-a

Further, 'Son of the Father' in Aramaic is בראבא

'Son of Man' would be בראָדָם

The 'Word' would therefore appear to be ברא

The question becomes, 'What is its significance in the John 1 narrative?'

Edited by Lamb93

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19 minutes ago, Lamb93 said:

 

Just came across this which is interesting.  ברא in Aramaic means 'son, child' suggesting a good fit with John 1.

Wiktionary - B-r-a

In Biblical Hebrew, according to the above link,  it can also mean 'to cut off' which brings Daniel 9:26 (KJV) to mind:

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

'Messiah', 'son', 'in the beginning', 'created', 'cut off' all connect to ברא which is pronounced:

Pronunciation of B-r-a

Thank you for your interest. 

That said, the whole point of this Bible Study Club is to keep it very focused to the Christian English Biblical text being studied and the underlying original Hebrew / Greek of that particular passage, together with possible biblical cross references. 

Since the Gospel of John is a translation of a Greek text, this particular post, while it may be interesting, cannot be found in the passage being studied at this particular time.  

However, this might be a good topic for your own Club, no?

Please take this as a warning - if you continue to go off on tangents from the stated purpose of this Bible Study, you will leave me no choice but to remove you from participating. 

Thank you.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, AgedLace said:

Thank you for your interest. 

That said, the whole point of this Bible Study Club is to keep it very focused to the Christian English Biblical text being studied and the underlying original Hebrew / Greek of that particular passage, together with possible biblical cross references. 

Since the Gospel of John is a translation of a Greek text, this particular post, while it may be interesting, cannot be found in the passage being studied at this particular time.  

However, this might be a good topic for your own Club, no?

Please take this as a warning - if you continue to go off on tangents from the stated purpose of this Bible Study, you will leave me no choice but to remove you from participating. 

Thank you.

Sorry.  I thought at least seven cross references to the Hebrew/Aramaic word ברא between John 1, Genesis 1, Daniel 9, Matthew 24, Matthew 27 etc was significant given the John narrative is based in an Aramaic speaking culture with a Hebrew religious history.  

Let's just hope I don't represent the judging hand of Elohim, eh?  Elohim works in mysterious ways.

Justin ברא (Blair)

 

Edited by Lamb93

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6 minutes ago, Lamb93 said:

Let's just hope I don't represent the guiding hand of God, eh?  God works in mysterious ways.

From the Introduction

Purpose

This Bible Study is intended for each person to gain their own understanding of what the Bible really says instead of what other people have told them it says.
 

Quote

[1Jo 2:27 NLT]
But you have received the Holy Spirit, and he lives within you, so you don't need anyone to teach you what is true. For the Spirit teaches you everything you need to know, and what he teaches is true--it is not a lie. So just as he has taught you, remain in fellowship with Christ.

Once again, the stated purpose of this Bible Study is for the Holy Spirit to teach each of us individually.  He is our Teacher.  The specific instructions He gave me was that He wanted to teach people, not me, not you, not anyone else.  

  I can say with a great deal of confidence you are not the Holy Spirit, and therefore you are not, in this instance, being guided by the hand of God since you insist on going against the explicit instructions He has given regarding the conduction of this Bible Study.

By the way ... this is strike two. 

 

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