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octopus prime

Return of a Cult? 25 Years After the Waco Tragedy, Why Another Ministry Is Rising in the Same Spot

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/return-of-a-cult-25-years-after-the-waco-tragedy-why-another-ministry-is-rising-in-the-same-spot/ar-AAw234E?ocid=spartanntp&ffid=gz

On Feb. 28, 1993, agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms raided the Texas compound of the Branch Davidian religious group after accusations that their self-proclaimed doomsday prophet, David Koresh, had been sexually abusing minors and stockpiling weapons.

In an ensuing shoot-out, four federal agents and six Davidians were killed — though their deaths were only the beginning.

That gun battle 10 miles outside of Waco sparked a 51-day siege that ended on April 19 when a fire erupted, killing 75 Davidians, including 25 children and Koresh. The FBI maintains the sect’s followers set the blaze, which began after authorities pumped tear gas into the compound.

One survivor described a heat so intense it peeled his skin and melted his clothes.

Twenty-five years later, a new branch of the Davidians (who were originally an off-shoot of the Seventh Day Adventist Church) controls the 77-acre site of the former Mount Carmel compound. The group’s leader, Charles Pace, espouses conspiracy theory and says God chose him to “rebuild a purified church and community.” He now lives on the property with his wife and two adult children.

“God wants us to gather people that believe in the truth as it is in Christ,” Pace tells PEOPLE. Of the Davidians under Koresh, he says, they thought he “was God. That was a cult.”

(cut)

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Having relatives that lived in the area, the stories of events from them were allot different than what was MSM to the public, bottome liine this was more of the same lines as Ruby Ridge and the same PERSON in charge, it was a slaughter, and IT did NOT have to happen, Koresh was know to come to town often and they could have arrested him then. FACT!!

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Just now, apache54 said:

Having relatives that lived in the area, the stories of events from them were allot different than what was MSM to the public, bottome liine this was more of the same lines as Ruby Ridge and the same PERSON in charge, it was a slaughter, and IT did NOT have to happen, Koresh was know to come to town often and they could have arrested him then. FACT!!

Or, they could have sent Billy Bob and Jimbo, the local deputies that knew him and most likely there wouldn't have been any resistance.  Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver are a different sort of cluster in my mind. Before the negotiators arrived at the cabin, FBI sniperLon Horiuchi, from a position over 200 yards north and above the Weaver cabin, shot and wounded Randy Weaver in the back with the bullet exiting his right armpit, while he was lifting the latch on the shed to visit the body of his dead son.(The sniper testified at the later trial that he had put his crosshairs on Weaver's spine, but Weaver moved at the last second. ) Then, as Weaver, his 16-year-old daughter Sara, and Harris ran back toward the house, Horiuchi fired a second bullet, killing Vicki Weaver, and wounded Harris in the chest. Vicki Weaver was standing behind the door through which Harris was entering the house, holding their 10-month-old baby Elisheba, in her arms.

Don't know if I'd have been taken alive after that. After what was clearly entrapment in the first place over a shotgun allegedly sawed off too short.  That's a whole lot of death. 

Ruby Ridge stands alone in my mind...for a lot of reasons 

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5 minutes ago, apache54 said:

Having relatives that lived in the area, the stories of events from them were allot different than what was MSM to the public, bottome liine this was more of the same lines as Ruby Ridge and the same PERSON in charge, it was a slaughter, and IT did NOT have to happen, Koresh was know to come to town often and they could have arrested him then. FACT!!

I've seen all kinds of reports and they waited until everyone was contained and then struck.

Once the davidians fought back and the ATF lost men and women....all rules were off....that's when the incidieries were set off....and men, wo.en and children burned.

That immediately set off Tim mcvey and his mission to attack the federal building.

He saw a wrong and set out to make it right....at least in his mind

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5 minutes ago, Oregonian said:

I've seen all kinds of reports and they waited until everyone was contained and then struck.

Once the davidians fought back and the ATF lost men and women....all rules were off....that's when the incidieries were set off....and men, wo.en and children burned.

That immediately set off Tim mcvey and his mission to attack the federal building.

He saw a wrong and set out to make it right....at least in his mind

He and his family are mentally ill his brother held me hostage.

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8 minutes ago, octopus prime said:

Or, they could have sent Billy Bob and Jimbo, the local deputies that knew him and most likely there wouldn't have been any resistance.  Ruby Ridge and Randy Weaver are a different sort of cluster in my mind. Before the negotiators arrived at the cabin, FBI sniperLon Horiuchi, from a position over 200 yards north and above the Weaver cabin, shot and wounded Randy Weaver in the back with the bullet exiting his right armpit, while he was lifting the latch on the shed to visit the body of his dead son.(The sniper testified at the later trial that he had put his crosshairs on Weaver's spine, but Weaver moved at the last second. ) Then, as Weaver, his 16-year-old daughter Sara, and Harris ran back toward the house, Horiuchi fired a second bullet, killing Vicki Weaver, and wounded Harris in the chest. Vicki Weaver was standing behind the door through which Harris was entering the house, holding their 10-month-old baby Elisheba, in her arms.

Don't know if I'd have been taken alive after that. After what was clearly entrapment in the first place over a shotgun allegedly sawed off too short.  That's a whole lot of death. 

Ruby Ridge stands alone in my mind...for a lot of reasons 

what was the same was the person in charge of the FBI and her mental state is still in my mind sick!, and yes the FBI paid him to shorten the barrel and then black mailed him to spy, and when he refused they hunted him down, there was no reason for ANY of this to go down as it did, and that FBI sniper, well lets just say he is LUCKY to still be walking!!

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5 minutes ago, thedudeabides said:

He and his family are mentally ill his brother held me hostage.

Mcvy, was just a patsy to take the fall for why they wanted that fed building blown up with ALL those documents just moved there that would have put some famous people away

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16 minutes ago, thedudeabides said:

He and his family are mentally ill his brother held me hostage.

Say what really dude?

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, apache54 said:

what was the same was the person in charge of the FBI and her mental state is still in my mind sick!, and yes the FBI paid him to shorten the barrel and then black mailed him to spy, and when he refused they hunted him down, there was no reason for ANY of this to go down as it did, and that FBI sniper, well lets just say he is LUCKY to still be walking!!

Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris were subsequently arraigned on a variety of federal criminal charges, including first-degree murder over the death of Deputy US Marshal W.F. Degan. Harris was acquitted of all charges, and Weaver was subsequently acquitted of all charges except for the original bail condition violation for the arms charges and for having missed his original court date. Fined US$10,000 and sentenced to 18 months in prison, he was credited with time served plus an additional three months, and was then released.

During the federal criminal trial of Weaver and Harris, Weaver's attorney Gerry Spence made accusations of "criminal wrongdoing" against the agencies involved in the incident, in particular, the FBI, the USMS, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), and the United States Attorney's Office (USAO) for Idaho. At the completion of the trial, the Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility formed the Ruby Ridge Task Force (RRTF) to investigate Spence's charges. A redacted HTML version of the RRTF report was publicly released by Lexis Counsel Connect, an information service for attorneys, which raised questions about the conduct and policies of all of the participating agencies. A PDF version of the report was later posted by the Justice Department.

Both the Weaver family and Harris brought civil suits against the government over the events of the firefight and siege, the Weavers winning a combined out-of-court settlement in August 1995 of $3.1 million, and Harris being awarded, after persistent appeals, a $380,000 settlement in September 2000.

Gerry Spence was probably the last great constitutional lawyer.  But none of that brought Weaver's family back from the dead. I also saved Spence's closing arguments in that case. He was brilliant. 

Edited by octopus prime

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6 minutes ago, octopus prime said:

Randy Weaver and Kevin Harris were subsequently arraigned on a variety of federal criminal charges, including first-degree murder over the death of Deputy US Marshal W.F. Degan. Harris was acquitted of all charges, and Weaver was subsequently acquitted of all charges except for the original bail condition violation for the arms charges and for having missed his original court date. Fined US$10,000 and sentenced to 18 months in prison, he was credited with time served plus an additional three months, and was then released.

During the federal criminal trial of Weaver and Harris, Weaver's attorney Gerry Spence made accusations of "criminal wrongdoing" against the agencies involved in the incident, in particular, the FBI, the USMS, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF), and the United States Attorney's Office (USAO) for Idaho. At the completion of the trial, the Department of Justice's Office of Professional Responsibility formed the Ruby Ridge Task Force (RRTF) to investigate Spence's charges. A redacted HTML version of the RRTF report was publicly released by Lexis Counsel Connect, an information service for attorneys, which raised questions about the conduct and policies of all of the participating agencies. A PDF version of the report was later posted by the Justice Department.

Both the Weaver family and Harris brought civil suits against the government over the events of the firefight and siege, the Weavers winning a combined out-of-court settlement in August 1995 of $3.1 million, and Harris being awarded, after persistent appeals, a $380,000 settlement in September 2000.

Gerry Spence was probably the last great constitutional lawyer.  But none of that brought Weaver's family back from the dead. I also saved Spence's closing arguments in that case. He was brilliant. 

yes he was!! (Spence)

Back in those days some of the people i was with, and i am talking (*&^&%$$^&*%$#) people were drawing straws as to whom would go take care of the sniper, when he shot the mother holding the baby, He crossed the line, I am talking NON- civilian personnel if you know what I mean, thinking about it still rises my BP.

 

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6 minutes ago, apache54 said:

yes he was!! (Spence)

Back in those days some of the people i was with, and i am talking (*&^&%$$^&*%$#) people were drawing straws as to whom would go take care of the sniper, when he shot the mother holding the baby, He crossed the line, I am talking NON- civilian personnel if you know what I mean, thinking about it still rises my BP.

 

They crossed the line when they killed his son. Killing the mother holding the baby had more than a few groups headed to Idaho.  

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