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Eve

Forensic Acoustic Proof of Second Shooter

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 Eve    302

Forensic acoustic analysis of Las Vegas shooting, including location of second shooter.

 

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 Therin    1,083
18 minutes ago, Eve said:

Forensic acoustic analysis of Las Vegas shooting, including location of second shooter.

 

Excellent analysis and lays out the math behind it. It strikes me that it wouldn't be hard to determine EXACTLY where the second shooter was if you had multiple audio feeds. 

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 Therin    1,083

The way the tandem of gunmen worked together makes me think the whole thing was designed to conceal the second shooter and maximize the body count.

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 CaptH    71

Really, really, interesting analysis. I never knew it could be so simple when you follow the laws of physics. 

Anyone able to corroborate this?

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 Eve    302

Key points: 

Analysis of acoustic files downloaded from videos off of YouTube. 

Speed of sound (specific to Las Vegas area) = 345 m/s

Speed of bullet from rifle (55g .223 rifle round) = 975 m/s

Flight time to 366m or 400y (specific to rifle used, info obtained from gundata.org*) = .523s

Therefore, the bullets are traveling about 3 times faster than sound, meaning the bullets arrive first and then the sound of the rifle report is heard. This can be explained by the Doppler Effect (which isn't mentioned by name), and corresponds with higher frequencies being closer by than lower frequencies. AKA, what many people are calling "echoes" are actually the sound of the bullet hitting the ground nearby (high frequency) and the delayed sound of the gun firing from further away (low frequency). He equates this to soldiers who can tell how far away shooting is occurring, which reminds me of counting the seconds between the flash of lightning and thunder to determine how close a storm is.

Using software that allows for visualization of the wav file, the exact time between the last bullet hitting the ground and the end of the report of the rifle is .559s - this falls in range of the Mandalay hotel (~ 400y). 

However, there are times when the delay between high and low frequencies is equal to .374s - which would indicate that shooting was also occurring as close as 250 yards.

Conclusion: unless Paddock can also teleport, there were (at least) two shooters. 

In this video, he determines a radius and three likely positions of the the second shooter. As he himself is not a professional forensic analyst, he mentions the key piece of data that could help triangulate the location of the second shooter: precise GPS data for the different videos. Then, replicating the above procedure with as many videos as possible (he mentions 10 videos as being enough) would provide circles that will intersect at one point - the exact location of the second shooter.

 

*Attempts to access website returns DNS error.

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 Eve    302
14 minutes ago, CaptH said:

Really, really, interesting analysis. I never knew it could be so simple when you follow the laws of physics. 

Anyone able to corroborate this?

Indeed, the maths are amazingly telling. I love maths. ^^ And I could if I had the right programs for it - however, pinpointing he exact position of the second shooter (or potential multiple shooters) requires extremely precise GPS data from the videos.

But to confirm this should be as simple as having an audio editing program that allows you to grab the exact amount of time passing between the last bullet hitting the ground (high frequency) and the end of the accompanying rifle report (low frequency). 

I'm feeling a bit lazy to do it though, since the synchronized video reveals that shooting was taking place next to the taxi driver lady (about 30s into her video), but is not heard at the concert. See what I can manage when I'm on the big computer tonight.

47 minutes ago, Therin said:

The way the tandem of gunmen worked together makes me think the whole thing was designed to conceal the second shooter and maximize the body count.

It's never a lone wolf. At least, not in these mass terror attacks. They tried to say the Bastille Day attack in Paris was also a lone wolf! But then questions about how he got through security barriers came up and blew that theory out of the water. 

I don't know. The whole thing feels well thought out for amateurs, but sloppy for someone(s) with experience. 

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 croix    47

But but but......CNN and FOX and all of the other alphabet groups said it was only 1 shooter, who shot from the 32nd floor, and had been there since 9/28 and was a lone wolf, and only had 2 pictures ever taken of himself in his whole life.

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 Dr. Evil    2,553
7 minutes ago, Eve said:

See what I can manage when I'm on the big computer tonight.

You might want to try a hypothesis where at least one if not two other shooters were behind/beside the lights that lit up the crowd. That would have been one of the best positions. And there were probably others shooting from other rooms at the Mandalay.

10 minutes ago, Eve said:

The whole thing feels well thought out for amateurs, but sloppy for someone(s) with experience. 

Damn right. They either have complete contempt for the sheeple who've never worked them out before so why would they this time, or this was an off-the-shelf op done in a hurry, with insufficient planning/rehearsal. It definitely wasn't amateurs..

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 croix    47
1 hour ago, Eve said:

Forensic acoustic analysis of Las Vegas shooting, including location of second shooter.

 

"There are in fact two things, science and opinion; the former begets knowledge, the latter ignorance." Hippocrates

 

Brilliant find!

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 Eve    302
48 minutes ago, Dr. Evil said:

You might want to try a hypothesis where at least one if not two other shooters were behind/beside the lights that lit up the crowd. That would have been one of the best positions. And there were probably others shooting from other rooms at the Mandalay

The best I'll probably be able to determine is a circumference from which the shooter(s) could be, like the video. The video provides a radius that puts the circumference outside of the venue, but more than 100y closer than Mandalay. I imagine that determining if gunshots came from inside the venue would be difficult as the delay between bullet and report would be extremely minimalistic and thus indiscernible from the other shots. But, I can determine what the delay should be and see if there is something there. ^^ 

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 apache54    6,049
1 hour ago, Eve said:

Key points: 

Analysis of acoustic files downloaded from videos off of YouTube. 

Speed of sound (specific to Las Vegas area) = 345 m/s

Speed of bullet from rifle (55g .223 rifle round) = 975 m/s

Flight time to 366m or 400y (specific to rifle used, info obtained from gundata.org*) = .523s

Therefore, the bullets are traveling about 3 times faster than sound, meaning the bullets arrive first and then the sound of the rifle report is heard. This can be explained by the Doppler Effect (which isn't mentioned by name), and corresponds with higher frequencies being closer by than lower frequencies. AKA, what many people are calling "echoes" are actually the sound of the bullet hitting the ground nearby (high frequency) and the delayed sound of the gun firing from further away (low frequency). He equates this to soldiers who can tell how far away shooting is occurring, which reminds me of counting the seconds between the flash of lightning and thunder to determine how close a storm is.

Using software that allows for visualization of the wav file, the exact time between the last bullet hitting the ground and the end of the report of the rifle is .559s - this falls in range of the Mandalay hotel (~ 400y). 

However, there are times when the delay between high and low frequencies is equal to .374s - which would indicate that shooting was also occurring as close as 250 yards.

Conclusion: unless Paddock can also teleport, there were (at least) two shooters. 

In this video, he determines a radius and three likely positions of the the second shooter. As he himself is not a professional forensic analyst, he mentions the key piece of data that could help triangulate the location of the second shooter: precise GPS data for the different videos. Then, replicating the above procedure with as many videos as possible (he mentions 10 videos as being enough) would provide circles that will intersect at one point - the exact location of the second shooter.

 

*Attempts to access website returns DNS error.

Basically your correct. BUT you have to consider that we don't know what ammo was used and therefore those velocities could be different, BUT either way, this shows more than one shooter.

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