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Rothbard

The Bible is Flat-Earth

89 posts in this topic

Does the Bible support a flat and stationary earth? 

This question has been raised repeatedly here at COP but no one has taken the time to provide a detailed response.  I hope my work here will prove useful for some because it wasn't easy.  I apologize that I created a new thread for this, but merely posting it in grav's thread wasn't reasonable.

To be clear, I support a much more figurative or symbolic understanding of the Bible; however, in this case, the Bible may be literally true but I certainly did not come to the flat earth because of my Christian beliefs.  If you believe in a literal Bible then you may want to re-consider the flat earth theory as the text of the Bible undoubtedly supports a flat and stationary earth as will be proven herein. 

All Bible verses below were quoted directly from the King James version.  http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/ 

Other Sources

“Zetetic Astronomy,” Samuel Rowbotham (1881) http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za66.htm 

“The Flat-Earth Bible,” Robert J. Schadewald, https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm 

King James Bible

1 Chronicles 16:30:  “Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.”

Psalms 93:1:  “The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved.”

Psalms 96:10: “Say among the heathen that the LORD reigneth: the world also shall be established that it shall not be moved: he shall judge the people righteously.”

Isaiah 45:18: “For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.”

Exodus 20:4:  “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth”

  • Note:  This verse is very profound.  Hasn't this become the whole purpose of NASA? 

Genesis 1:1-8, 13-19:  “(1) In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  (2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.  (3) And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.  (4) And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.  (5) And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.  (6) And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.  (7) And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.  (8) And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day ….  (13) And the evening and the morning were the third day.  (14) And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:  (15) And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.  (16) And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.  (17) And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, (18) And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.  (19) And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.”

  • Note:  The order of creation makes no sense from a conventional perspective but is perfectly logical from a flat-earth viewpoint.  The earth was created on the first day, and it was “without form and void (Genesis 1:2).” On the second day, a vault the “firmament” of the King James version was created to divide the waters, some being above and some below the vault.  Only on the fourth day were the sun, moon, and stars created, and they were placed “in” (not “above”) the vault.  https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm 

Genesis 1:9-10:  “(9) And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.  (10) And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.”

  • Note:  Only the dry land is called earth.

Psalms 24:1-2:  "(1) The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.  (2) For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods.”

Psalms 104:5-8:  “(5) Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.  (6) Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.  (7) At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.  (8) They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them.”

Psalms 136:6-9:  “(6) To him that stretched out the earth above the waters: for his mercy endureth for ever.  (7) To him that made great lights: for his mercy endureth for ever:  (8) The sun to rule by day: for his mercy endureth for ever:  (9) The moon and stars to rule by night: for his mercy endureth for ever.”

Matthew 4:8: “Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;”

Revelation 1:7:  “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”

  • Note:  “’As the earth is a globe in continual motion, how could Jesus, on being ‘taken up into an exceedingly high mountain, see all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time?  Or when ‘He cometh with clouds and every eye shall see Him,’ how was it possible, seeing that twenty-four hours would have to elapse before every part of the earth would be turned to the same point?’”  Rowbotham (see Zetetic Astronomy http://www.sacred-texts.com/earth/za/za66.htm). 

Daniel 4:10-11:  “(10) Thus were the visions of mine head in my bed; I saw, and behold a tree in the midst of the earth, and the height thereof was great.  (11) The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the end of all the earth”

  • Note:  If the earth were flat, a sufficiently tall tree would be visible to the earth’s farthest bounds, but this is impossible on a spherical earth.

Psalms 19:1:  “The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.”

2 Peter 3:5:  “For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water”

Job 38:4-7:  “(4) Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.  (5) Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?  (6) Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; (7) When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?”

Isaiah 40:22:  “It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in”

Job 22:12, 14:  “(12) Is not God in the height of heaven? and behold the height of the stars, how high they are! …. (14) Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven.”

Ezekiel 1:22-26:  (22) And the likeness of the firmament upon the heads of the living creature was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above.  (23) And under the firmament were their wings straight, the one toward the other: every one had two, which covered on this side, and every one had two, which covered on that side, their bodies.  (24) And when they went, I heard the noise of their wings, like the noise of great waters, as the voice of the Almighty, the voice of speech, as the noise of an host: when they stood, they let down their wings.  (25) And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood, and had let down their wings.  (26) And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it.”

Ezekiel 10:1:  “Then I looked, and, behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne.”

"The Shepherd of Hermas," N.T. Apocrypha (http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/lbob/lbob26.htm):  “(28) Behold the mighty Lord, who by his invisible power, and with his excellent wisdom made the world, and by his glorious counsel beautified his creature, and with the word of his strength fixed the heaven, and founded the earth upon the waters; and by this powerful virtue established his Holy Church, which he hath blessed.”

Job 36:7:  “He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.”

  • Note:  “Dr. Adam Clark, although himself a Newtonian philosopher, says, in his commentary on the passage, the literal translation is, “on the hollow or empty waste;” and he quotes a Chaldean version of the passage, which says:  “He layeth the earth upon the waters, nothing sustaining it.”  It is not that he “hangeth the earth upon nothing,” an obviously meaningless expression but “layeth it upon the waters,” which were previously empty or waste or unoccupied by the earth – in fact, on and in which there was nothing visible before the dry land appeared.”  Rowbotham.

Genesis 49:25:  “Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb”

Deuteronomy 4:15-19:  “(15) Take ye therefore good heed unto yourselves; for ye saw no manner of similitude on the day that the LORD spake unto you in Horeb out of the midst of the fire:  (16) Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female, (17) The likeness of any beast that is on the earth, the likeness of any winged fowl that flieth in the air, (18) The likeness of any thing that creepeth on the ground, the likeness of any fish that is in the waters beneath the earth:  (19) And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, even all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven.”

Daniel 8:10:  “And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.”

Deuteronomy 33:13:  “And of Joseph he said, Blessed of the LORD be his land, for the precious things of heaven, for the dew, and for the deep that coucheth beneath”

Jeremiah 31:35, 37:  “(35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name … (37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.”

Joshua 10:13:  “And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.”

Psalms 19:4-6:  “(4) Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun, (5) Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.  (6) His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.”

Ecclesiastes 1:5:  “The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.”

Judges 5:31:  “So let all thine enemies perish, O LORD: but let them that love him be as the sun when he goeth forth in his might. And the land had rest forty years.”

1 Esdras 4:34 (Apocrypha - http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/apo/es1004.htm): “O ye men, are not women strong? great is the earth, high is the heaven, swift is the sun in his course, for he compasseth the heavens round about, and fetcheth his course again to his own place in one day.”

Genesis 1:14-17:  “(14) And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:  (15) And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.  (16) And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.  (17) And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth”

  • Note: that the lesser light (the moon) was also set to “give light upon the earth.”

Revelation 6:13:  “And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.”

  • Note:  “Christian and Jewish commentators – except the astronomically educated – hold and teach, on Scriptural authority, that the earth as well as the sun, moon, and stars, were created about 4000 years before the birth of Christ, or less than 6000 years before the present time.  But if many of these luminaries are so distant that their light requires nearly two millions of years to reach the earth …” Rowbotham.

Ezekiel 32:7-8:  “(7) And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.  (8) All the bright lights of heaven will I make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD.”

Jeremiah 51:16:  “When he uttereth his voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens; and he causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth: he maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of his treasures.”

Psalms 148:3:  “Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.”

Isaiah 13:10:  “For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.”

Matthew 24:29:  “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken”

Isaiah 60:19-20:  “(19) The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.  (20) Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.”

Ecclesiastes 12:2:  “While the sun, or the light, or the moon, or the stars, be not darkened, nor the clouds return after the rain”

Isaiah 30:26:  “Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.”

Deuteronomy 33:14:  “And for the precious fruits brought forth by the sun, and for the precious things put forth by the moon”

1 Corinthians 15:41:  “There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.”

Revelation 6:12:  “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood”

  • Note:  “If the moon has a light of her own, the above language is consistent; but if she is only a reflector the moment the sun becomes black her surface will be darkened also.  She could not remain as blood while the sun is dark and ‘black as sackcloth of hair.’”  Rowbotham.

Joel 2:10:  “The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining”

Daniel 12:3:  “And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.”

"As Above, So Below" vs. Heaven Above and Hell Below

All who believe in and speak of Heaven and hell, do so of the former as above and of the latter as below the earth …”  Rowbotham. 

Interestingly, the alleged spherical shape of the Earth was very important to Luciferians, Atheists, and possibly Freemasonry as it removed the idea of above (heaven) and below (hell).  Here’s a quote from the publication Lucifer from December 23, 1887:

“We date from the First of January, 1601.  This era is called the Era of Man (E.M.) to distinguish it from the theological epoch that preceded it.  In that epoch the Earth was supposed to be flat, the Sun was its attendant light, revolving about it.  Above was Heaven, where God ruled supreme over all potentates and powers; below was the kingdom of the dead, hell.  So taught the Bible.  Then came the new Astronomy.  It demonstrated that the Earth is a globe revolving about the sun, that there is no ‘up and down’ in space.  Vanished the old Heaven, vanished the old Hell; the Earth became the home of man.  And when the modern Cosmogony came, the Bible and the Church, as infallible oracles, had to go, for they had taught that regarding the universe which was shown to be untrue in every particular.”

       – Lucifer, Dec. 23rd, E.M. 287 (1887).  See also:  https://www.kshs.org/p/kansas-historical-quarterly-front-page-from-lucifer-the-light-bearer/13208 

Note that on the globe there is no “up and down,” meaning there is no heaven and no hell – there is only man.  That also has significance for Satanism and Freemasonry – “As above so below.”  “In Magick (Book 4), Crowley asserted that Baphomet was a divine androgyne and ‘the hieroglyph of arcane perfection’: Seen as that which reflects. ‘What occurs above so reflects below, or As above so below.'”  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baphomet. 

See the following related Bible verses:

Deuteronomy 26:15:  “Look down from thy holy habitation, from heaven, and bless thy people Israel, and the land which thou hast given us, as thou swarest unto our fathers, a land that floweth with milk and honey.”

Exodus 19:20:  “And the LORD came down upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and the LORD called Moses up to the top of the mount; and Moses went up.”

Psalms 102:19:  “For he hath looked down from the height of his sanctuary; from heaven did the LORD behold the earth”

Isaiah 63:15:  “Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained?”

Psalms 103:11:  “For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.”

2 Kings 2:11:  “And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.”

Mark 16:19:  “So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”

Isaiah 14:13-14:  “(13) For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:  (14) I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”

Acts 1:9-11:  “(9) And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.  (10) And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; (11) Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven."

Acts 7:55:  “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God”

Luke 24:51:  “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.”

Deuteronomy 32:22:  “For a fire is kindled in mine anger, and shall burn unto the lowest hell, and shall consume the earth with her increase, and set on fire the foundations of the mountains.”

Job 11:8:  “It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know?”

Psalms 55:15:  “Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.”

Psalms 139:8:  “If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.”

Proverbs 7:27:  “Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.”

Isaiah 14:15:  “Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.”

Proverbs 9:18:  “But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.”

Proverbs 15:24:  “The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.”

Isaiah 14:9:  “Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.”

Ezekiel 31:16-17:  “(16) I made the nations to shake at the sound of his fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.  (17) They also went down into hell with him unto them that be slain with the sword; and they that were his arm, that dwelt under his shadow in the midst of the heathen.”

Ezekiel 32:27:  “And they shall not lie with the mighty that are fallen of the uncircumcised, which are gone down to hell with their weapons of war: and they have laid their swords under their heads, but their iniquities shall be upon their bones, though they were the terror of the mighty in the land of the living.”

Matthew 11:23:  “And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.”

2 Peter 2:4:  “For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment”

Jude 1:13:  “Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.”

Revelation 20:10, 13-14:  “(10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever …. (13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.  (14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”

Job 28:5:  “As for the earth, out of it cometh bread: and under it is turned up as it were fire.”

John 17:1:  “These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee”

Genesis 11:4:  “And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.”

Revelation 7:1:  “And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.”

The Book of Enoch

“The cosmology previously described is derived from the Bible itself, following the 19th century flat-earthers. Some of the evidence is more ambiguous than we would like. Ambiguities in ancient documents can often be elucidated by consulting contemporary documents. The most important ancient document describing Hebrew cosmology is 1 Enoch (sometimes called the Ethiopic Book of Enoch), one of those long, disjointed, scissors and paste jobs beloved by ancient scribes. For a dozen or so centuries, European scholars knew 1 Enoch only from numerous passages preserved in the patristic literature. In 1773, the Scottish adventurer James Bruce found complete copies in Ethiopia.”  https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/febible.htm 

Enoch 33:1-4 (http://book-ofenoch.com/chapter-33/):  “(1) From thence I advanced on towards the north, to the extremities of the earth.  (2) And there I saw a great and glorious wonder at the extremities of the whole earth.  (3) I saw there heavenly gates opening into heaven; three of them distinctly separated. The northern winds proceeded from them, blowing cold, hail, frost, snow, dew, and rain.  (4) From one of the gates they blew mildly; but when they blew from the two other gates, it was with violence and force. They blew over the earth strongly.”

Enoch 34:1-2 (http://book-ofenoch.com/chapter-34/):  “ (1) From thence I went to the extremities of the world westwards; (2) Where I perceived three gates open, as I had seen in the north; the gates and passages through them being of equal magnitude.”

Enoch 21:1-3 (http://book-ofenoch.com/chapter-21/):  “(1) Then I made a circuit to a place in which nothing was completed.  (2) And there I beheld neither the tremendous workmanship of an exalted heaven, nor of an established earth, but a desolate spot, prepared, and terrific.  (3) There, too, I beheld seven stars of heaven bound in it together, like great mountains, and like a blazing fire. I exclaimed, For what species of crime have they been bound, and why have they been removed to this place? Then Uriel, one of the holy angels who was with me, and who conducted me, answered: Enoch, wherefore dost thou ask; wherefore reason with thyself, and anxiously inquire? These are those of the stars which have transgressed the commandment of the most high God; and are here bound, until the infinite number of the days of their crimes be completed.”

Enoch 18:1 (http://book-ofenoch.com/chapter-18/):  “I then surveyed the receptacles of all the winds, perceiving that they contributed to adorn the whole creation, and to preserve the foundation of the earth.”

Enoch 41:4-5 (http://book-ofenoch.com/chapter-41/):  “(4) I beheld also the receptacles of the moon, whence the moons came, whither they proceeded, their glorious return, and how one became more splendid than another. I marked their rich progress, their unchangeable progress, their disunited and undiminished progress; their observance of a mutual fidelity by a stable oath; their proceeding forth before the sun, and their adherence to the path allotted them, in obedience to the command of the Lord of spirits. Potent is his name for ever and for ever.  (5) After this I perceived, that the path both concealed and manifest of the moon, as well as the progress of its path, was there completed by day and by night; while each, one with another, looked towards the Lord of spirits, magnifying and praising without cessation, since praise to them is rest; for in the splendid sun there is a frequent conversion to blessing and to malediction.”

Enoch 72:1-5 (http://www.yahwehsword.org/book-of-enoch/hanoch_enoch_072.htm):  “(1) The Book of the Itinerary of the Luminaries of Heaven: the position of each and every one, in respect to their ranks, in respect to their authorities, and in respect to their seasons; each one according to their names and their places of origin and according to their months, which Uriel, the kodesh malak who was with me, and who also is their guide, showed me -just as he showed me all their treatises and the nature of the years of the world unto eternity, till the new creation which abides forever is created.  (2) This is the first commandment of the luminaries: The sun is a luminary whose egress is an opening of heaven, which is located in the direction of the east, and whose ingress is another opening of heaven, located in the west.  (3) I saw six openings through which the sun rises and six openings through which it sets. The moon also rises and sets through the same openings, and they are guided by the stars; together with those whom they lead, they are six in the east and six; in the west heaven. All of them, are arranged one after another in a constant order. There are many windows both to the left and the right of these openings.  (4) First, there goes out the great light whose name is the sun; its roundness is like the roundness of the sky; and it is totally filled with light and heat.  (5) The chariot on which it ascends is driven by the blowing wind. The sun sets in the sky in the west and returns by the northeast in order to go to the east; it is guided so that it shall reach the eastern gate and shine in the face of the sky.”

Enoch 88:1-3 (http://www.yahwehsword.org/book-of-enoch/hanoch_enoch_088.htm):  “(1) I then saw one of those four who had come out earlier seizing that first star, binding his hands and feet, and throwing him into an abyss; this abyss was narrow and deep, empty and dark.  (2) Also one of them drew a sword and gave it to those elephants, camels, and donkeys; then they began to attack one another, and on account of them the whole earth was quaking.  (3) And as I continued to see in the vision, behold, from that time, one of the four, among those who had come out, was stoning from the sky, and gathering and taking away all the mighty stars, whose sexual organs were like the sexual organs of horses; then he bound all of them hand and foot, and cast them into the pits of the earth.”

Enoch 18:14-15 (http://www.yahwehsword.org/book-of-enoch/hanoch_enoch_018.htm):  “(14) Then the malak said to me, “This place is the ultimate end of heaven and earth: it is the prison house for the stars and the powers of heaven.  (15) And the stars which roll over upon the fire, they are the ones which have transgressed the commandments of YAHWEH from the beginning of their rising because they did not arrive punctually.”

 

 

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@Challenger i know you could add some insight!

@Rothbard.,wow you put a lot of work into this.thank you.i am new to the words of the bible and am learning a lot as i read!!

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Posted (edited)

This is the most disgusting thing I have ever seen. You are no Christian. You are warping the meaning of each of these texts to fit your goal. You are a wolf in sheep's clothing. I rebuke these lies from hell.

The world is a sphere, the bible clearly establishes such. You attempting to use my God's holy scriptures to support your beliefs is the line. Do not take my God's word out of context. If you continue you open the doors of hell on your life.

Edited by thedudeabides
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Posted (edited)

The Bible can be all three such as figurative, symbolic, and even literal, but translations have intentionally changed much of its true meaning.

I'm certainly never going to start a debate here, but one clear point that I would like to make is your first Bible quote as an example and how some people such as yourself can sometimes take things out of context. I have not even checked any of the others, but I'm sure I would find discrepancies there as well. I have learned to let the words speak for themselves, and not what I want them to say.

1 Chronicles 16:30: “Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.”

The phrase "be not moved" does not mean "does not spin or rotate." You also need to take into consideration the words "shall be stable" when reading that one verse.

What this is saying is the earth will always remain in its current path and place in its orbit in this solar system. It will never stray from its path because God has caused it to be stable forever.

You need to be a bit more careful about the overall meaning of verses in an already hard to understand book. It was hard for those who took the time to write things down they didn't always understand themselves. After all, how could they describe and airplane other than "it ascended above the clouds." You have to view everything this way. They had zero technology at that time and attempted to describe things they couldn't understand.

The way that helped me to understand everything was by looking for more than one keyword in any verse. Also, look for short little phrases. As a matter-of-fact, there are plenty of books instructing these very ideas and even the actual Biblical quotes in question explaining in detail exactly what they mean. Perhaps, and if your research is really that deep, and which it seems to be, you should look into purchasing one. You can also locate them online for free.

Edited by Cryptic Mole

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15 minutes ago, thedudeabides said:

This is the most disgusting thing I have ever seen. You are no Christian. You are warping the meaning of each of these texts to fit your goal. You are a wolf in sheep's clothing. I rebuke these lies from hell.

The world is a sphere, the bible clearly establishes such. You attempting to use my God's holy scriptures to support your beliefs is the line. Do not take my God's word out of context. If you continue you open the doors of hell on your life.

Out of context?  I quoted precisely and carefully.  You can run away from the truth but you cannot claim you have Bible support.

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Posted (edited)

8 minutes ago, Rothbard said:

Out of context?  I quoted precisely and carefully.  You can run away from the truth but you cannot claim you have Bible support.

I don't even see where the dudes post is in your thread that you are responding to. Where is it?

edit: Oh, now I see it, but it wasn't there before as hard as I looked.

Edited by Cryptic Mole

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10 minutes ago, Rothbard said:

Out of context?  I quoted precisely and carefully.  You can run away from the truth but you cannot claim you have Bible support.

You cannot claim truth. Only theory.

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11 minutes ago, Cryptic Mole said:

The Bible can be all three such as figurative, symbolic, and even literal, but translations have intentionally changed much of its true meaning.

I'm certainly never going to start a debate here, but one clear point that I would like to make is your first Bible quote as an example and how some people such as yourself can sometimes take things out of context. I have not even checked any of the others, but I'm sure I would find discrepancies there as well. I have learned to let the words speak for themselves, and not what I want them to say.

1 Chronicles 16:30: “Fear before him, all the earth: the world also shall be stable, that it be not moved.”

The phrase "be not moved" does not mean "does not spin or rotate." You also need to take into consideration the words "shall be stable" when reading that one verse.

What this is saying is the earth will always remain in its current path and place in its orbit in this solar system. It will never stray from its path because God has caused it to be stable forever.

You need to be a bit more careful about the overall meaning of verses in an already hard to understand book. It was hard for those who took the time to write things down they didn't always understand themselves. After all, how could they describe and airplane other than "it ascended above the clouds." You have to view everything this way. They had zero technology at that time and attempted to describe things they couldn't understand.

The way that helped me to understand everything was by looking for more than one keyword in any verse. Also, look for short little phrases. As a matter-of-fact, there are plenty of books instructing these very ideas and even the actual Biblical quotes in question explaining in detail exactly what they mean. Perhaps, and if your research is really that deep, and which it seems to be, you should look into purchasing one. You can also locate them online for free.

Like I said, I believe the Bible speaks more figuratively than most Christians do and so I don't use the Bible as a proof of the flat earth.  One could find many different meanings in the verses quoted above if you're willing to think outside the literal text.  I was only trying to present the fact that the text of the Bible does indeed support a flat earth.

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5 minutes ago, Cryptic Mole said:

You cannot claim truth. Only theory.

No, my underlying claim that the literal Bible text supports a flat earth is 100% accurate. 

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7 minutes ago, Rothbard said:

Like I said, I believe the Bible speaks more figuratively than most Christians do and so I don't use the Bible as a proof of the flat earth.  One could find many different meanings in the verses quoted above if you're willing to think outside the literal text.  I was only trying to present the fact that the text of the Bible does indeed support a flat earth.

 

I understand that, and why, but the verse I quoted clearly states what I claimed it said. If I had already found errors in your first Biblical quote, how may others will there be in all the others? You are attempting to see something that's not there because you already believe the way that you do. Your mind is already made up, therefore, everything needs to fit, but it doesn't just because you want it to. There are many other ideas and opinions other than what you or I and thedudeabides believe. However, you should never pass your own opinions off as facts because that how you will lose all credibility and respect in the long run.

I myself will never believe in a flat earth, and nothing will ever convince me or change my mind, but I do respect others opinions concerning these matters. At the same time, though, I view these threads as silly because there are two sides who will never come to any kind of agreement. They can debate into an eternity and nothing will ever change! You know it's time to end a thread when the arguments break out no matter how good the thread seems to be.

Just my opinion/theory.

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1 minute ago, Cryptic Mole said:

I understand that, and why, but the verse I quoted clearly states what I claimed it said. If I had already found errors in your first Biblical quote, how may others will there be in all the others? You are attempting to see something that's not there because you already believe the way that you do. Your mind is already made up, therefore, everything needs to fit, but it doesn't just because you want it to. There are many other ideas and opinions other than what you or I and thedudeabides believe. However, you should never pass your own opinions off as facts because that how you will lose all credibility and respect in the long run.

I myself will never believe in a flat earth, and nothing will ever convince me or change my mind, but I do respect others opinions concerning these matters. At the same time, though, I view these threads as silly because there are two sides who will never come to any kind of agreement. They can debate into an eternity and nothing will ever change! You know it's time to end a thread when the arguments break out no matter how good the thread seems to be.

Just my opinion/theory.

Sorry, but you found no error with the first verse quoted and only added your opinion as to its meaning. 

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Just now, Rothbard said:

Sorry, but you found no error with the first verse quoted and only added your opinion as to its meaning. 

You're right, what I've said is also only my opinion. That's why I will no longer argue with anyone because I never will claim to have all the answers.

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