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thedudeabides

Serious question to the community, for my own minds sake.

13 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

A vast majority here are anti-socialism. That is clear. Most right of center as well. I have two questions. Each for the other spectrum.

Here is my question for those right of center.

Why is it we are so open minded? I ask this because I can bet money each of us have friends from the other side whom we treat rather fairly.

 

Now for the left.

 

Why are you so closed minded? Do not say you are, this is a fallacy, no argument. The proof is in the rampant militant mindset of the left. Case in point, openly calling for the censorship of any and all opposition.

 

Discuss

Edited by thedudeabides

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I'm a little stunned with the hypocrisy of your statement.

Sorry, just as I see it.

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Few right nations exists. Monaco perhaps.

When you are getting taxed, you are giving your money you worked hard for to an authority who redistributes it to whom they feel has need for it. That is socialist to the core. If you live in a nation who pays taxes you are living in a socialist nation.

 

The real question should be why all these socialist nations pretends not to be socialist nations?

 

Taxation is a left wing policy. Right-wingers would say you pay for everything you use so why are we paying taxes for, we have money from our work so we have the money to pay for any services.

 

Taxation takes your money and gives it to welfare beneficiaries, your government and all those who make a living off it. A right wing government would all have paying jobs/income and wouldn't need any money from the people...like Monaco. 

 

 

So why do you think and believe what you do?

Few people ask this question of themselves and it is relevant to the US brainwashing perpetrated on the US people by the US Media and educational system.

The seeds of anti-socialism (despite by all definitions the USA being a socialist nation) started with US government contractor and father of Public Relations Edward Bernays.

US business people have been the driver of the USA since before 1900. They decide what direction the USA is heading in more than any US politician. They defend their business interests in every way possible. In Guatamala the United Fruit Corporation was going to lose their domination over that nation. Allen Dulles and his brother were part of the United Fruit Corp. They and their business partners didn't want to lose all their efforts and assets to a newly formed communist government who was taking their assets as part of nationalizing the nation. They sought help from their friends in the USA and they contracted Edward Bernays to supplement their proposal.

 

The US government simply proposed to invade Guatamala, but that would have been seen as terrorism today and certainly not humanitarian. That is where Edward Bernays comes in. Bernays floats a newspaper  in which communism is heavily attacked as an enemy of capitalism and freedom itself.

If you live in the USA this is why you are against Socialism and communism. The US government (really the US business cartel as they have the most to lose under communism and socialism) conditioned/brainwashed you into behaving like this. They created all your patriotic beliefs. (just like the USSR did to it's children, raised to worship the nation) Psychological conditioning, pure and simple.

The USA did invade Guatamala and deposed the lawful government without the US people saying no. In fact the US people supported the invasion for the continued security of the USA. This happened in the 1930's. You see how long they have been applying this simple tactic? "We better blow up Libya, it might be a threat one day."  Only Libya was so bad they banned reporting on the US and UK involvement until after Gaddaffi was long dead. But Iraq was more open, they had those weapons of mass destruction.

 

If you live in the USA and think the left is bad and the right is good it is because those who control the direction of the USA wanted you to believe that. Industrialists, bankers and the wealthy fear communism and socialism the most because they would have their wealth stripped and redistributed, over 70% of the worlds wealth in the possession of less than 10% of the people. You see why they are so scared. Nothing makes rich people more fearful than being ordinary and only as worth as much as the rest of us.

 

Our opinions are created. This is a fundamental problem with the way we obtain data. If we obtain data from sources (second hand sources instead of learning to think for ourselves)  which are not integral we take on their bias or even the bias they create for us to believe because they control the data being distributed.

 

Now back to the OP.

People are just people, they are not left or right out of the womb along with the proscribes behaviours and beliefs they are allowed because of their left or rightness. Most people believe what they believe because they were taught to believe that.

 

If you were raised by rapists that would be normal to you.

If you were raised by racists that would be normal to you.

If you were raised by head-hunters that would be normal to you.

If you were raised in the system we live in in along with it's created values that would be normal to you.

If you were raised to believe your nation was the greatest, most powerful and had a right to tell other nations what to do and what to believe that would be normal to you.

 

The best slaves don't know they are slaves. They never think for a second to escape the system which holds them because they have been raised to be dependant on it. It is their mother and their father, their employer, their mistress, their ruler, the creator of their desires.

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What I've noticed is that the people on the left seem to quick to anger and become aggressive when they're opposed.
The people on the right seem to be more solid in that they hold their ground without jumping on others verbally or physically.
When someone gets upset so easily it makes me think they're not confident in themselves or with their personal beliefs.
Most "conservatives" can laugh off an insult but "liberals" tend to lose it and lash out. Fear and insecurity I guess.
:1XqXnoz:

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Perceived injustice?

Left knows those rich bastards are taking everything for themselves.

Right knows those idiots keep giving their money to the rich.

I'm just curious to know why people think their government would be the most "fair". I mean, the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior, no?

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Lucy Barnable said:

What I've noticed is that the people on the left seem to quick to anger and become aggressive when they're opposed.
The people on the right seem to be more solid in that they hold their ground without jumping on others verbally or physically.
When someone gets upset so easily it makes me think they're not confident in themselves or with their personal beliefs.
Most "conservatives" can laugh off an insult but "liberals" tend to lose it and lash out. Fear and insecurity I guess.
:1XqXnoz:

This is a good point.

Edited by thedudeabides

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8 hours ago, thedudeabides said:

This is a good point.

It is a good point. But also makes me think that the liberal lashing out Lucy describes accurately is usually in response to a right wing comment on how stupid their political stance is. 

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I was brought up in a very socialist family, gov is good, taxes are necessary, help the needy, blah blah. It's like being brought up religious, the indoctrination is the same. Then I joined a capitalist forum oh... 12 years ago and learned why capitalism is good, that businesses create the jobs that run the country, gov just sucks off the tax tit. Gov's sole purpose is to grow bigger and stronger and wealthier just like any corporation. Only gov will throw you in jail, take your property if they don't get your money, while businesses give you the choice to give them your money. Or not.

What I've eventually learned is there is no difference between liberal or conservative governments only rhetoric.

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2 minutes ago, Brio said:

I was brought up in a very socialist family, gov is good, taxes are necessary, help the needy, blah blah. It's like being brought up religious, the indoctrination is the same. Then I joined a capitalist forum oh... 12 years ago and learned why capitalism is good, that businesses create the jobs that run the country, gov just sucks off the tax tit. Gov's sole purpose is to grow bigger and stronger and wealthier just like any corporation. Only gov will throw you in jail, take your property if they don't get your money, while businesses give you the choice to give them your money. Or not.

What I've eventually learned is there is no difference between liberal or conservative governments only rhetoric.

It gets really crappy when government and private businesses gang up on you with laws like Obamacare, where you are forced to buy a product from a private company by the government or face a fine and still have no coverage.  There was a point where they wanted to jail us for not buying the insurance, but that got tossed, except I do believe that when people don't pay the obamacare tax, there will eventually be jail time for defying the IRS who was put in charge of collection of that money. At any rate, the fines and fees will grow to the point that they will own everything you have by the time you die, if you don't pay them. How did it get like that!? 

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I never hear "left-winger" applied to anyone. What are other names? Progressive, for one. What a nice word, progress. CTers call them libtards, which sounds about 'right' to me. :biggrin:

I heard "extreme right-wingers" earlier (on MSNBC) to describe protesters in Brussels. Also "thugs" and" and "Fascists." Sometimes I hear "Neo-con." hmm, no Neo-lib?

The pen is mightier than the sword. So true. Words are powerful weapons when used by those who know how to control minds.

Is Capitalism a dirty word? do we even have genuine free enterprise? Hell, no. Crony capitalism is how we roll, government-capitalism, corporations who own the US. 

All this talk about minimum wage being mandated by state gov. That's free enterprise? 

 

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Just now, Cinnamon said:

It gets really crappy when government and private businesses gang up on you with laws like Obamacare, where you are forced to buy a product from a private company by the government or face a fine and still have no coverage.  There was a point where they wanted to jail us for not buying the insurance, but that got tossed, except I do believe that when people don't pay the obamacare tax, there will eventually be jail time for defying the IRS who was put in charge of collection of that money. At any rate, the fines and fees will grow to the point that they will own everything you have by the time you die, if you don't pay them. How did it get like that!? 

The economic hitman

They've plucked all the low hanging fruit.

 

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15 hours ago, thedudeabides said:

A vast majority here are anti-socialism. That is clear. Most right of center as well. I have two questions. Each for the other spectrum.

Here is my question for those right of center.

Why is it we are so open minded? I ask this because I can bet money each of us have friends from the other side whom we treat rather fairly.

 

Now for the left.

 

Why are you so closed minded? Do not say you are, this is a fallacy, no argument. The proof is in the rampant militant mindset of the left. Case in point, openly calling for the censorship of any and all opposition.

 

Discuss

I've seen people on both sides that are closed minded. They can both dig their heels in to the point of absurdity when they don't want to hear something that goes against their beliefs.  This doesn't just happen in politics, it's the same for just about any subject.  It's a lot harder to have a conversation with someone who doesn't agree with you, but the conversations I've had with a few on the left shows me just how much they hate this country and the very things that gives them the ability to speak out against it.  They seem to miss that crucial point when it comes to arguing about politics.  They claim to hate capitalism, yet, everything they have is due to capitalism, not due to the socialist aspects of the U.S. and they don't seem to understand that their idea of collectivism is not what a government will implement if given free reign. Republics that fall into democracy end up with despotism. 

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