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Last1oftheJedi

Got the balls to talk Rapture?

Rapture   3 members have voted

  1. 1. Well?

    • It's bullshit. Post, Pre and everything between.
      1
    • I believe in a Pre Tribulation Rapture
      1
    • I believe in a Pre Wrath Rapture
      1
    • Other (Please explain)
      0

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3 posts in this topic

Let's talk about the Rapture for realizes if that's what this is all about. You know who you are. Let's do it in the light, as I'm too pretty to be kept in the dark ^.~

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Or not e.e It's cool. Alot of my threads end up as dead as this.

I would like to post something. The only edits I will make will be acknowledged and much like old tv show with Sgt. Friday, the names will be changed or removed to protect the innocent (or simply unwilling to nut up...i shouldn't have said that...I'm not comfortable being on top >.> Subconcious fish for red maybe e.e [Explainabrag!])

Also while copy editing, (i can only promise i am not doing it in anything but journalist integraty. I know, it's suppose to be dead) I realized I should explain myself. This isn't to defame or annoy or any of that nonsense. This site says it wants original content. Well, this is original content. I think the reason I'm up so much green this week is because I don't just copy paste. I speak my mind, and let it all out on the table like I was going all in at a texas hold'em. If I'm wrong, I'll learn. But if I'm right, and one person gets anything outta this whole thing, then God bless, it was worth whatever may come. 

Final note: I don't multi, certainly not on CT sites. I save that shit for RP, and no, this isn't an RPG to me. This site, has done alot for me. Made me feel like I have a home on the net as myself. I know, there will be those that question that, because I am the best table top in the game today. So again, just gonna have to take my word or hate the messenger. I'm familar with both. With all the legalize outta the way, please enjoy:

 

Mr. X:

In that Rapture thread you said, "But I don't hold em harshly, they're just scared, because they either don't know how Awesome God is, or they don't beieve their faith will hold out. Either way, it's a fear based doctrine, in my humble opinion. " So you think I'm "scared", "don't know how awesome God is", and "don't believe my faith will hold out", and that this has anything to do with being humble. Why do you assume such things about people you don't know? Well, here's your opportunity to talk to a pre-tribber. See if you can find fear, faithlessness, or lack of awe for God in anything I say. 

 

I didn't respond in the thread because I was told in no uncertain terms that I wasn't welcome to express my opinion there. But if you're going to bash fellow believers in public, or deny we're fellow believers, I'm offering you this chance to clear the air. If you consider me a Christian, then don't mock me. If you consider me lost, then how would you expect to save me while mocking me? Think about it. And if you don't want to talk, that's fine; I just want to know whether you'll treat me with civility.

 

Me: 

[Y] really shook ya hu? Dude, we can talk at anytime, and I promise, I will do my best to be civil. Sometimes, we all fail at presenting the point we wish to, and it being misconstruded, and that's no one's fault. That's just the reality of communication. So, yeah, I'd love to talk about the rapture. 

 

First, I don't think your scared,as personally "Oh shit, I can't handle the tribulation", I think most PTR are afraid of not getting called up the first time, and to me that is sad, because I'm worried that their indoctrination will cost them something precious.

 

Second, you take things way too personal g. I was giving a generalized observation, it don't doesn't mean I was talking strictly about you. But if you wish to explore the lie you've fallen for, I'm all for it.

 

Third, only you are silencing yourself. [Y] [did something] and you're holding that against all of us here at COP ever since. You ask how I hold you guilty of beliefs you claim, but you hold me guilty of things I've never even done. 

 

Fourth, I do believe you are a Christian and have a true love for the Lord. I've read your works here, 90% I agree with, and the proof is in I only get 5 green aday, and how often do you get one of those off me? More than most, I'll tell ya truely. 

 

Fifth, I;ve never mocked you o.o. I did make [make a statement that if I quoted would make all this 'protect innocent" worthless]  Because I wasn't. [removed to protect the innocent and avoid call out. If you want it, I'll do my best to share the original without reveiling, as Mr. X came to me in confidence to not be put in a spot light, which as we all know, my attention whore self loves way too much.]

 

Sixith, I never bashed anyone here but SK, because he cheered the dead of a million blacks. I mean, that's literally wtf to a simple man like me. No one else have I insulted, not even once. That is why i am greening like a mug while having only personal opinions. A) Because I don't believe my opinion to be absolute, B) I openly confess these are not the law stated, just a humle opinion.

 

Pause: You mention me mocking you alot on this letter, can you please just point out how i offended you?

 

Seven, I can't save you. Only Jesus can. No matter beliefs or philosphies, it's all down to one question, bro. Do you believe Jesus was God made flesh, born of a virgin, who died for all mankind's sin on the cross, then rose three days later to fulfil the scriptures and chill with his homies? Because if you believe onto Christ, you are already saved. I'm just trying to help ya not get caught up by the false messiah to come. Alot of people are going to fall for it, and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

 

Eight, did you see my Pastor Anderson vid on the Rapture? It answers alot of your questions, but you gotta have ears to hear it.

 

Nine, Why would God mark his chosen to not be harmed if he was going to whisk them away?

 

Ten, How can I testify before the antichrist if I was taken on a cloud?

 

Eleven, In Matt 24, those that are taken away are clearly compared to those taken away in the flood of Noah, why would I want to be taken away, and not on the ark of faith?

 

Here's where I come from at the end of, my friend. Even if there is a "pretrib rapture" which has God call up those special enough to escape the pain, but not those that are still worthy of testifying before the Antichrist in a way where we're not suppose to premedate what we say because God will speak through us, in cloven tongue. I mean, how is that even possible if the Holy Spirit vacates at any time before the Wrath. The Wrath and the tribulation arn't the same. It's a twist of the word, as the Devil often does, to trick the flock into death. I honestly believe God stirred you heart, to hear this message, so you may be like the mighty men of old, and help us true in the faith stand in the final hour.

 

Final note, if you're right, no harm no fouls. But if I'm right, that's literally soul on the line level stuff. I back all my with full passages from the scripture, and would be more than happy to share them all to you, if you'd like. But you could save me some time if ya just watched that vid and then asked and poked holes in those that deny the PTR. As for me, me and my house arn't going anywhere. The harvest is great, but the workers few, because alot of em are taking the wrong cloud outta dodge.

 

Mr. X:

Thanks for responding.

 

First, no, nobody "shook" me. That's not a good way to start out if you're trying to be civil. And all [Y] did is fly off the handle because I expressed an opinion [Y] doesn't like. But at least you're trying, which is at least a start.

 

You said "most PTR are afraid...", but that's not true at all. How many PTR do you know personally, and how exactly have they expressed fear? And why call their difference of opinion on prophecy "indoctrination"? It seems to me that the fear is on your part, since you are "worried that it may cost them something precious". Like what, salvation? Don't worry, that won't happen. We PTRs are used to disappointment, believe me.

 

Second, no, this isn't me taking things personally. It's me putting a human face on the group you mock, and appealing to you as a Christian to think about what message this sends to the lost. Christians mocking other Christians only makes them not want to become one. Siding with unbelievers on a Bible topic makes them see us as traitors to our own people. 

 

Third, [Y] did this TODAY. It was [Y] who [Removed to protect idenity]. I can handle people being mad at me any day of the week, but [Y] is as thin-skinned as they come. [removed to protect idenity]. So you need to get your facts straight. And I have not accused you of anything but what you did publicly: you mocked any and all PTRs without any kind of disclaimer. You can't claim that my calling you out is the moral equivalence of you bashing all PTRs and making blanket judgments of their character.

 

Fourth, I'm glad to know you don't consider me lost. And I appreciate the green! But if I'm a fellow believer, why side with unbelievers against me publicly in a thread bashing a Christian belief? Is that how we're supposed to treat each other?

 

Fifth, yes, you mocked me. You knew before you posted in that thread where I stood. And I already explained what I meant about hostility. I'm the one who walked away, but apparently that means I got "shook". The reality is that I "shook" the dust from my feet. 

 

Sixth, when you say what you did about PTRs, that is bashing. And if you know your opinion is not absolute, why all the fear and mocking of PTR? You could be wrong, after all, just like anyone else. And if the word "mocking" is bothering you, then what word would you prefer to describe the attitude you expressed? You declared that all who believe PTR are fearful, don't trust God, etc. How do you know this, and if you don't, then how is this not insulting or mocking or whatever you want to call it? Real, faithful, brave people believe PTR. 

 

Seventh, I have no clue why you think I said anything close to you saving me. All I said was that IF you considered me lost because of PTR, then how was your dissing of PTRs going to win any of them over? And just because you asked, I'll answer your questions: I do believe Jesus is God in the flesh, born of a virgin, died for sin on the cross, and rose again three days later, and is coming again as he promised. Why you would need to ask me this after saying you consider me a fellow believer, I have no idea. And don't be afraid that I would be fooled by a false Messiah. As I explained in my link, only the true Messiah will come down from heaven with the shout of the archangel and trump of God, will raise the dead in Christ, will instantly transform the living in Christ to immortal bodies, and will snatch us up to meet him in the clouds, after which we will all go to be with him in heaven. No fake can do that. So your worries are unfounded. Completely, utterly unfounded.

 

Eighth, I've watched many videos, read many articles, studied many commentaries in my 5+ decades as a Christian. I've heard every argument on all sides of the rapture issue. And I made my PTR apologetic as a summary of the anti-PTR slander against us. I have no questions that any pastor needs to answer, as I've studied the issue thoroughly and listened already to the other rapture views. I know the NT well and have concluded that PTR is what it teaches. Now the question is, do YOU "have ears to hear" the PTR side from someone who believes it instead of someone who doesn't? 

 

Ninth, you seem to presume that the chosen in Revelation are the church. This brings up a key point that will determine whether we can even talk about prophecy: do you believe the church is "spiritual Israel"? Those who see the two groups as one will interpret scripture through that lens, and those who see them as distinct will interpret scripture through that lens. I believe they are distinct, so if you believe they are not, then there really isn't any point in discussing the rapture, since you will interpret every instance of "saint" or "chosen" as pertaining to the church. This once again is an issue I discussed in my link.

 

Tenth, who needs us here to testify when God has already told us he will send the two witnesses, the 144,000, and even angels and eagles to proclaim the gospel? And if you read Revelation carefully, you'll see that even the evil ones know it is God who is judging them; it will be very clear then. 

 

Eleventh, Mat. 24 is about the tribulation, not the rapture, and about Israel, not the church. Here again we see that if you view the two groups as one, it would be futile for us to discuss prophecy. And this is yet another issue I discussed in the link.

 

The PTR is NOT about escaping pain or suffering; this too is covered in my link. And since we are not saved by our works or righteousness, why would anyone think we're raptured by our works or righteousness? It has nothing to do with how good of a Christian anyone is, but simply whether they belong to Jesus. Only this, and nothing more. And perhaps God stirred you to hear this message, eh? I have neither the need nor the desire to prove myself worthy, as only Jesus is worthy. And all that any Christian has endured in this life through the church age has been the test of character and means of earning rewards. This isn't about me and my glory, it's about Jesus and his glory.

 

Finally, a reminder not to fear what belief in PTR may lead to. Nobody is going to lose salvation over it, don't worry. Our faith is in Jesus, not our understanding. It's actually quite condescending to think you know the strength of someone else's faith, especially millions of people's faith, over this solitary issue. I could easily turn it around: people who rely on their own strength to endure and seek to win the glory for themselves as "mighty men of old" are in for a big shock. But I don't do that, because it is unbecoming of a Christian to make such blanket judgments.

 

I too back all my beliefs with scripture. No need to offer yourself as my teacher, as I am well familiar with the scriptures and wasn't born again yesterday (to borrow a phrase from an ex-atheist I knew online). I'm sure you mean well, but here again you may not realize how it sounds to offer "help" to someone who merely disagrees with you. Were I to offer to "help" you learn the scriptures, I would be presuming to know them better, and I won't do that.

 

Hopefully you'll at least come to understand that if PTR is right, you and your family will be "going somewhere" when Jesus comes, ready or not. There is no such thing as "the wrong cloud outta Dodge"; Jesus will come when he comes and he won't be asking any questions. I truly hope that you will consider this response as my honest desire to help heal the terrible division caused by one side of the rapture debate always looking down on the other. In all my years, I've yet to see the PTR side make dire, worried, broad-brush claims about the non-PTR side. Please consider why this is the case.

 

Me:

*Sighs* but you telling me how to address you, that's more proper. see not the plank for the splinter?

 

But that;s okay. If she hadn't shook ya, we'd be doing this live for all to see and not in the back room. Second, I know plunty of pretribers, or did until I talked to em. Not one, not one after I was done fall for the lie. Because I put myself and my ego aside, and let the Word speak for itself.

 

second, i never mocked a group. I said most, and I've preached from north to south, to east to west. I've healed by hand, I've healed by word. I don't need your approval, and I think you use the idea of it being mockery to dismis me as the enemy. That's what those that can't refute do.

 

third, see second.

 

Fourth, I never side with any man, I side with the Word. And this is the only place that CTs that seem to welcome that. Usually, I'm banned because the Word is hard to swallow.

 

Fifth, That was concern, not mockery. You twist my words to approve your own message.

 

Sixith, couldn't get past the first sentence. I don't mock PTR, I don't defame or insult. You are putting on me what you need to to justify yourself. God tells you in the word about people like you. Read, damnit.

 

Seventh, "how do you expect to save me" is your words, not mine.

 

Eighth, so you didn't watch it.

 

Nineth, *shrugs* I don't believe Christ has two brides. That sounds kinda mormon to me.

 

Tenth, I know you can't explain how the Spirit of God speaks through the witnesses if he removed himself in the wedding.

 

Eleven, I don't think God sees a diffrence between believers. We are all one bride.

 

If PTR isn't retreat docturine, then why is that all it speaks? Me, I'll hold this ground, and preach his word. I don't need a ticket out, because I know my God is an Awesome God who reigns in Heaven above. And we've already won, because God is an Awesome God.

 

The mighty men of old were the spawn of the sons of God and the daughters of Cain. And they were amazing because they brought a chance for even Cain's seed, to come into the glory. Again, read my Black Hebrew thread, please.

 

If you wern't in need of a teacher, you'd teach the Word, and not the false church.

 

I will never fall for the lie of Satan, and as aggressive as you stay through all your letter, I see why you did this backroom style. Be shame for everyone to see ya schooled, wouldn't it? 

 

Nothing in your links, nothing in your opinion, proves anything other than how easily people believe new age beliefs. And if not, then you could answer to any of the scripture presented, but you don't. You don't stand on the Word. You don't use the Word to refute. You use you're belief to stand, you're belief to refute. Well God said that's a folley of a man. Careful what you preach G, we, as ministers are held to a higher standard that the average sheep. ^.~

 

That said, we won't come to agreeance here. Because you remind me of my son. I will tell him something, and he will simply repeat what he desires. I will explain to him, and he will simply repeat what he desires. But God help ya to actually listen, to do the research. To seek him. It's fine. I'm sorry I offended you with truth. That's also what Jesus said, and you'd know that if you bothered to watch the vid I asked you to watch. Peace.

 

Mr X:

How have I told you how to address me? And how would that have anything to do with planks and splinters? And the REAL reason I took this to private messages is because it's the Christian thing to do. Didn't I already explain how Christians publicly arguing is a bad witness? Here again you think I'm afraid of someone, even after I told you otherwise. But at this point it looks like my own testimony is not to be believed.

 

You boast that you have a perfect track record in turning PTRs from "the lie". If that isn't both mocking and egotistical, I don't know what is. PTR is not a lie. That sort of claim is why I wrote that link against the SLANDER being committed against all who believe PTR is scriptural truth.

 

You keep denying what you did, so there seems little point in continuing. You are angry now and making up more things about me, twisting my words as you accuse me of doing. What was that you said about planks and splinters? And "people like you", you say? I rest my case; you just proved me right. Your anger is very telling. I hoped that we might be able to handle this like adults and like Christians. Rest assured I won't repeat that mistake.

 

Me:

The devil is an accusor, day and night. Only one of us accuses.

 

Lest the very elect be deceived. Onlyone of us is speaking deception.

 

The only mistake you should stop repeating is taking the words of men over the Word.

 

 

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