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Gold bar found in lake Koenigssee.

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Lake Koenigssee has long been rumored to hold Nazi gold . Reportedly gold bars were stashed there towards the end of World War II . Sources say this gold bar is not connected to the Nazi horde . But to me it sounds too damn coincidental?

 

I'm sure some of you have done research on this topic . Curious as to what everyone's reaction is ?

 

 

"A teenage girl vacationing in Germany discovered a gold bar worth approximately $17,900 while swimming in a lake on Friday, police say.

The 16-year-old found the precious metal about six-and-a-half feet under the surface of the Koenigssee lake, located in the German Alps near the Austrian border, The Associated Press reports.

The gold bar weighs approximately 17.6 ounces, according to reports. 

The girl handed her discovery over to authorities. A police diving team combed the lake for other valuables, but found nothing. 

Rumors that Nazi gold was once lost in the lake have circulated in the past, but reports indicate that this discovery "was not connected to the Nazi era," according to the BBC.

The Koenigssee lake has a reputation as the cleanest lake in Germany and is noted for its clear water. "

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/55cb57b9e4b0f1cbf1e6e451?

 

 

 

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Not just Gold, tonnes of research papers as well. I saw a doco maybe 10 years back where they found a lot of boxes (they were hoping for gold) but found lots of papers instead.

 

If you read read Robert Ludlum novels (of the Bourne identity fame) he used to play on the Nazi gold story to help create the Fourth Reich in some of his novels. In the Al Belik story he said a Submarine full of Nazi gold turned up covertly (organized) in the USA which funded the Phoenix Project (there are lots of projects and operations with that Phoenix title) the one where they were to study every facet of human beings which is in line with Nazi experimentation on human beings. (very interesting how they slide that material into medical books over time without mentioning it was the result of Nazi experimentation on people).

 

The Nazi's looted every nation they invaded. I'm not sure if anyone knows what was stolen to be able to work out what was still missing.

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Not just Gold, tonnes of research papers as well. I saw a doco maybe 10 years back where they found a lot of boxes (they were hoping for gold) but found lots of papers instead.

 

If you read read Robert Ludlum novels (of the Bourne identity fame) he used to play on the Nazi gold story to help create the Fourth Reich in some of his novels. In the Al Belik story he said a Submarine full of Nazi gold turned up covertly (organized) in the USA which funded the Phoenix Project (there are lots of projects and operations with that Phoenix title) the one where they were to study every facet of human beings which is in line with Nazi experimentation on human beings. (very interesting how they slide that material into medical books over time without mentioning it was the result of Nazi experimentation on people).

 

The Nazi's looted every nation they invaded. I'm not sure if anyone knows what was stolen to be able to work out what was still missing.

I think I read something about that once wern't  those documents found in Lake  Toplitz?

 

 Lots of rumors are tied to the hidden wealth  dr. Mengele and Boys from Brazil type stuff.

 

 personally I think a lot of stuff was hidden just for self-enrichment. Many of the people that did the hiding died so I am sure there is wealth out there to be discovered .

Edited by Falling down

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I think I read something about that once wern't  those documents found in Lake  Toplitz?

 

 Lots of rumors are tied to the hidden wealth  dr. Mengele and Boys from Brazil type stuff.

 

 personally I think a lot of stuff was hidden just for self-enrichment. Many of the people that did the hiding died so I am sure there is wealth out there to be discovered .

A bit like the invasions in the UK. People buried what they could not carry as they fled. That Saxon Horde they dug up a few years back was worth millions and priceless archaeologically. Who knows, perhaps such caches are all over the former occupied world.

 

Yes I was Topliz that I saw. 

Some of the Swizz banks also held valuables they knew were looted. Partly because they were a German bank with a swizz location.

 

The Golden Keel by Desmond Bagely (another of the 60's pulp authors like Ludlum) was about recovering a real lost horde in Italy. Gold and all the valuables the Italians gave over willingly to help fund the war effort. Piles of wedding rings and jewellery. Antwerp is where they were all re-cut according to some by Jewish jewellers in the gemstone cartels.

 

Much of those valuables have never been recovered officially. Perhaps we should do as Clive Cussler suggests ( I was a compulsive reader in my teens and twenties) and go forth and look in the places people rarely go in search of the best adventure of our lives and perhaps find a lost fortune.

 

One of the things said to be recovered by the Templars from under the Dome of the Rock was maps of the mines and tar deposits and perhaps hidden hordes in Persia. Not long afterwards they became the biggest money lenders in Europe. From the Poor knights of Christ to richest in Europe. For all the population we have it seems we have yet to explore everywhere.

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A bit like the invasions in the UK. People buried what they could not carry as they fled. That Saxon Horde they dug up a few years back was worth millions and priceless archaeologically. Who knows, perhaps such caches are all over the former occupied world.

 

Yes I was Topliz that I saw. 

Some of the Swizz banks also held valuables they knew were looted. Partly because they were a German bank with a swizz location.

 

The Golden Keel by Desmond Bagely (another of the 60's pulp authors like Ludlum) was about recovering a real lost horde in Italy. Gold and all the valuables the Italians gave over willingly to help fund the war effort. Piles of wedding rings and jewellery. Antwerp is where they were all re-cut according to some by Jewish jewellers in the gemstone cartels.

 

Much of those valuables have never been recovered officially. Perhaps we should do as Clive Cussler suggests ( I was a compulsive reader in my teens and twenties) and go forth and look in the places people rarely go in search of the best adventure of our lives and perhaps find a lost fortune.

 

One of the things said to be recovered by the Templars from under the Dome of the Rock was maps of the mines and tar deposits and perhaps hidden hordes in Persia. Not long afterwards they became the biggest money lenders in Europe. From the Poor knights of Christ to richest in Europe. For all the population we have it seems we have yet to explore everywhere.

That was how the Templars got their start. But in reality they were  the first bankers .  People gave them money at the beginning of their journeys to Jerusalem . They would issue them a code that only the Templars knew. 

 

 when the travelers arrived in Jerusalem they could redeem that code to other Templars for their funds .   people paid them well for those services but it was much safer than carrying their money on their travels .

Edited by Falling down

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We should also not forget to take cognizance of the amount of propaganda and personal emotions that have found their way into the stories we sometimes accept as fact.  That the Germans enriched themselves is in all probability true, as is with every nation who was involved and won a war.  It seems as if atrocities and war (winning) are always part of each over.  Many a horror story was told (true or fiction) of Americans who were said to have committed these in Iraq - one or two were even convicted.  The historic figures of Alexander, Nero, Cesar,  Hannibal etc did not escape these acts either.

Much of the stuff found its way to "pickers" who scavenged many a site after the war ended.

The issue is, when a big stash of gold is found, how will the finders prove who it belongs to?  Who will ultimately benefit? Will the rightful owners or their legal heirs have a claim? - I doubt that.  Would it not be better just to leave the stuff and its sordid history where it lies?

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We should also not forget to take cognizance of the amount of propaganda and personal emotions that have found their way into the stories we sometimes accept as fact.  That the Germans enriched themselves is in all probability true, as is with every nation who was involved and won a war.  It seems as if atrocities and war (winning) are always part of each over.  Many a horror story was told (true or fiction) of Americans who were said to have committed these in Iraq - one or two were even convicted.  The historic figures of Alexander, Nero, Cesar,  Hannibal etc did not escape these acts either.

Much of the stuff found its way to "pickers" who scavenged many a site after the war ended.

The issue is, when a big stash of gold is found, how will the finders prove who it belongs to?  Who will ultimately benefit? Will the rightful owners or their legal heirs have a claim? - I doubt that.  Would it not be better just to leave the stuff and its sordid history where it lies?

My grand-father committed War crimes as did every NZer in the desert campaign. During one of the pushes they were told to shoot Germans who were surrendering (a clear cut war crime) as they could not afford to leave people to guard them and it was feared the would "stop giving up" and take arms again behind them. Bombing civilians is also a war crime and always has been. The winners like to play the "good guys" and the allies refused to prosecute themselves.

 

On D-day we were (NZers) told to take no prisoners. One of the old men told me a guy came around asking for their prisoners after a few days to which we answered we had none. They said they nearly killed that guy in furry that they had shot people giving up on orders when they didn't have to. They formed associations after WWII (called the RSA, run by the Red hats) where people could talk about it amongst themselves. In reality it was a way of stopping the general public from finding out what we had done.

 

Unless the truth of War is told (Bloody murder and kids taught to be killers) people will keep on joining armies thinking it is good rather than Murder and Killing. Other resorts would be sought instead of subjecting kids to life long guilt (they didn't have to be there) that they can never remove. My wife's grandfather could never forgive the Germans because it would mean having to admit what he dis was nothing more than murder. He always called them targets rather than people when talking about it. He was a Bren gunner. Took it to his grave. Couldn't take his kids to the beach because it reminded him of what he done. Many couldn't get close to their kids because they felt they didn't deserve love after what they had done. Given a few drinks they would go home and beat their wives as a way of punishing themselves by hurting the ones who loved them because they felt they didn't deserve it.

 

The seeds of domestic violence came home with those young men. They beat their families starting a cycle of violence which still lurks today. Beat it into their kids who beat it into their wives and their kids and so on and so on. Doesn't get talked about so it continues on, kids being taught to be killers by people who should know better.

 

Sorry It is one of those things that sets me off.

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My grand-father committed War crimes as did every NZer in the desert campaign. During one of the pushes they were told to shoot Germans who were surrendering (a clear cut war crime) as they could not afford to leave people to guard them and it was feared the would "stop giving up" and take arms again behind them. Bombing civilians is also a war crime and always has been. The winners like to play the "good guys" and the allies refused to prosecute themselves.

 

On D-day we were (NZers) told to take no prisoners. One of the old men told me a guy came around asking for their prisoners after a few days to which we answered we had none. They said they nearly killed that guy in furry that they had shot people giving up on orders when they didn't have to. They formed associations after WWII (called the RSA, run by the Red hats) where people could talk about it amongst themselves. In reality it was a way of stopping the general public from finding out what we had done.

 

Unless the truth of War is told (Bloody murder and kids taught to be killers) people will keep on joining armies thinking it is good rather than Murder and Killing. Other resorts would be sought instead of subjecting kids to life long guilt (they didn't have to be there) that they can never remove. My wife's grandfather could never forgive the Germans because it would mean having to admit what he dis was nothing more than murder. He always called them targets rather than people when talking about it. He was a Bren gunner. Took it to his grave. Couldn't take his kids to the beach because it reminded him of what he done. Many couldn't get close to their kids because they felt they didn't deserve love after what they had done. Given a few drinks they would go home and beat their wives as a way of punishing themselves by hurting the ones who loved them because they felt they didn't deserve it.

 

The seeds of domestic violence came home with those young men. They beat their families starting a cycle of violence which still lurks today. Beat it into their kids who beat it into their wives and their kids and so on and so on. Doesn't get talked about so it continues on, kids being taught to be killers by people who should know better.

 

Sorry It is one of those things that sets me off.

Julian Savia comes to mind!  Sad reality this!

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Julian Savia comes to mind!  Sad reality this!

Julian isn't the only one I fear. We tend to cover-up the crimes of our beloved All Black sports stars in NZ. They are seen as Gods amongst us, more popular than any political figure. It is the national religion after all, Ruby Union. Parents take their kids to play from age 6 onwards every Saturday morning. girls included these days. (they don't play tackle rugby until age 8 and it is hard to drop someone like a sack of spuds at that age, more like three kids hanging off another one's back. No scrums until 10 and over and no serious pushing at that age. By the time they are 20 they are 12 year veterans of the game) One of the few places where people can get out their aggression in life. People die every year because of it. A guy I knew dropped dead after the game in the pub, brain bleed. Another kid got head stomped to death by accident in my town before they outlawed rucking. My own cousin a year older than me is a tetraplegic because of rugby union. Scrum collapse, broke his neck.

 

 

Sorry about that. And to FD.

Yeah, we have a domestic violence problem in NZ. Few of the authorities seem to understand it's roots. I never knew what it was like until I saw what happened in my friends family.

 

I have a friend who was Vietnam vet. Great guy, can't do enough for struggling people and people with low self esteem. Real pillar for many. One day his wife asked me not to have a drink with him. She told me often when he had a few in him he would beat her. The next day he would claim no recollection. She told me she would stay with her sister when he was in that mood. It never made sense to me how he could be like that when he was almost the opposite. The penny dropped one day when I realized he could not forgive himself for what he had done. Sometimes he told us about killing women in 'Nam. He said they were far more prepared to throw away their lives than any man. Revenge for husbands and children killed. Sometimes he told us how useless a particular rifle was because he had shot a guy 5 times in the chest before he stopped coming at him.

 

I guess when you are there it is life and death, but afterwards you must think differently. No draft in NZ for Nam, everyone was a volunteer, they didn't have to be there. The internal trauma must be devastating. It is like he has tried to destroy his own personal life while unfailing helping others as penance while never telling them why...unless they listened between the lines.

 

My grandfather on my father's side became a pillar of the community after WWII, known as the gentleman of the block. Same sort of deal. trying to make up for terrible things he did. He told us he always felt haunted by the young German solider he looted on the battlefield. I remember the pieces, belt buckle and a few items with eagles and swastika's. Cheap aluminium as it must have been near the end of the war. Like so many he couldn't have hurt a fly after the war. Many people tell me they hated those returned soldiers, cold old men one fishing captain told us. I don't think they understood why their fathers could never get close to them....I think they felt like unconvicted murderers.

 

They were young men in the NZ army. They obeyed orders because they wanted to be good soldiers. They were the only ones allowed to drink among the allies. Freyberg (the NZ general) told the high command if they wanted his boys to kill people they could have a drink about afterwards as far as he was concerned and he was not going to enforce their orders. They made the first night attacks in the desert campaign wanting to impress. The Maori's were cut out for it. It was in their blood. They could go from being life of the party to cold blooded killer and back again in minutes. They terrified the Germans with their face to face fighting among them often wielding traditional weapons as well as the laughable several shot rifles. Once were warriors. Never upset a Maori, they are good guys until then.

 

The Gold Bar thing....  My buddy Greenie told us at the end of 'Nam him and a few guys were given a box to guard. It was full of gold bullion (I often wonder what went down in 'Nam for them to have such a thing). They waited 6 days but no-one turned up for it....so they stole it. Had it sent Pakistan for their retirement plan. It got buried in the Pakistan earthquake in 2005 (when they told me, they wanted me to go over as I had  clean record) and as far as I know is still not recovered (at least by them). Greenie said he didn't care about the gold. All he wanted was the ragged US flag which he put in the crate which flew above their firebase and a baseball cap a US soldier have given him.

 

Looted Gold. I always wonder where that one had come from in 'Nam. Lots of strange things happened over there. My cousins step father told us he spent more time across the border in Cambodia doing "off the book missions" than he spent in 'Nam. He had photos, bad ones. He showed my cousin when he was 21. A field of bodies and pigs eating them. He said some of those people were not properly dead while those pigs were eating them. He was in LERPS.

 

My uncle was in the NZ navy. He was in the SBS (special boat services, like Navy seals). He couldn't tell us until he was retired. Previous he told us he was a navy medic and you are not allowed rank above chief petty officer to stay below the radar so to speak. One of the NZ navy boys told us he was famous within the service, they called him Doctor Death. He was in Gulf War One as one of the people holding laser on targets in the desert. Chemical weapon disposal between Gulf Wars. He inhaled something and was rushed back to NZ but was later fine. My cousin is a nurse. She was diagnosed with fatal polyps on the lungs same as my uncle had, but told it was incurable. We put her in touch with him and she was given an injection on the quiet and cured. There are things the military have for their top specialist that are not available to the general public.

 

Bit of a ramble, sorry about that. It might make some pennies drop for some people. Sometimes strange to think my uncle is a cold blooded killer. He wasn't affected by what he did. They say 10% of the population are cold blooded killers in potential. Sort of controlled psychopaths. Perhaps they are better off in the armed forces where they are under control.

Edited by Guitar Doc

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Cool -  Check the song I posted in the Music thread - - Nevermind! - The lyrics are fitting to your discussion above!

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